Doorman Guilty of Paralysing Student

[ballantyne78]

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/445 ... id=7790348

Doorman Andrew Lee found guilty of Paralysing a student at Kaos Nightclub in Southampton last month, using a Full Nelson, sentenced today. Awaiting results of sentencing.

[Boz]

If this incident happened in February 2008, why are all of the video clips dated 2006 and how did the press get hold of them?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the guy as he has had a fair trial and has been found guilty so got his just deserts so it's more of an observation.

[SleepingPill]

I feel bad for the doorman, it was just bad luck. People should behave properly when they go out then these tragic events wouldnt happen

[btnds]

If im not mistaken is that not Jetbow who used to be a member on the old old old forum ?

[ballantyne78]

Didn't actually look at the dates on the clips Boz, however they are reputed to have come from a Social Networking site (facebook,bebo etc) that he posted them on. Which wasn't very bright. This guy actually used to work for the same firm that I was an Ops Manager for and at his trial, one of the current Ops Managers stood up as a character witness for the prosecution! Gives you a clue as to how bad he was.

I have met him on a couple of occasions and they were usually directed at some form of disciplinary procedure. Odinarily I'll defend a fellow doorman until I'm blue in the face, however in the case of this guy, it's be safe to say that he should have been removed from the doors a long while ago. He was a liability and it's sad that his behaviour was left unchecked for so long that it resulted in this.

I know accidents can happen to any of us, however they're more likely to happen if you're continually doing something stupid.

[securityguy]

The videos dated 2006 are ones that he posted online himself and are nothing to do with the student who was paralyzed. It is clear from the videos and having spoken with doormen in the southampton area that this person was a thug who fancied himself as a bit of a fighter.

[DirtyH]

Another cautionary tale, control and restraint must be taught along with the box ticking on the SIA course. Granted this Doorman seems to be a big time charlie judging by comments made against the news article and from forum members on here but nobody deserves to suffer a broken neck whilst being ejected from a venue be it from a well meaning doorman or a thug. This isnt the first time we have heard of injuries caused by this method of restraining someone. I only hope the chap concered can get on with his life as best he can.

[Boz]

If im not mistaken is that not Jetbow who used to be a member on the old old old forum ?

Yes, think he only stopped posting because of the arrest.

[charlie taters]

Judging by the CCTV there appeared to be another chap picking up the injured lad as well, is it only Jetbow in bother?

The other couple of videos posted on that newspaper site are hardly going to help him are they...

I thought the whole point of CCTV was to turn it off when you were doing the whacking and leave it on when your getting whacked!

[PhatDad]

I actually can't see a problem with the video's on the website, although I don't think any of them are from the actual incident he's jailed for. I hate the way the site posts stuff like 'A video clip of where he hits a woman.' but then you watch it and low and behold the pissed up bitch slaps him repeatedly on the face with both hands. What's the guy supposed to do? How anti-doorman is it being reported?

Balantyne how come if you were Ops Manager for the same company you didn't remove him from the doors considering your opinion of him?

[ballantyne78]

Company had 4/5 Ops Managers, each covering a different area. He didn't come under my area, therefore despite my opinion of him I had no say in who that areas Ops Manager hired or fired. Only met him a couple of times when he was coming in to the office, as I said, normally for a bollocking. I believe the Ops Manager for his area did bin him eventually. That's not to say he wouldn't have been re-employed by someone else within the company at a later date. It's all about boots on the floor for this company, Boz will attest to that as I reckon he knows exactly which company I'm referring too. They do not have the best reputation.

His problem seemed to be that he had a love of violence but no real ability or skill at violence, hence he always had to go a little bit harder or a little bit further. (If that makes sense). In this instance I would suggest that it was unlucky or unfortunate, however as stated earlier, if you're continually doing something stupid, sooner or later your luck runs out.

I think most of the older doorman on here particularly, will have used a full nelson at some point in their career, whether they care to admit it or not. I have, however, it's certainly something I've tried to stay away from over the last few years, given the number of horror stories appearing about them. A case of there but for the grace of God. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[KeithB]

I actually met the guy in question. I was contacted by the nightclub owner to deliver a Btec restraint course to his guys after this incident happened at the request of the nightclub owners insurance company. I feel really sorry for the guy in question as he thought what he was doing was right. I have had several chats with experienced 'seasoned' Door Supervisors I know,about full nelsons and choke holds and why they should not be used. Dont get me wrong before I became an Instructor I use to use these moves as well. This is where I feel the SIA have failed as a Governing Body,by only making Conflict Management a compulsory part of the course is putting extra risk on both DS and customers. Conflict Management will probably work with 97% of the public but as you all know it is that 3% who cannot be reasoned with and will try to inflict pain onto or kill others. Now it looks like physical restraint will becoming a compulsory part of the licence next year which I feel is long over due.

KeithB
www.response-training.co.uk

[KeithB]

Scrap my apology for this bloke, I have just seen the footage of incident and other incidents including him. The way he described the scenario to me and the way it actually happend are two different things all together. This was a problem waiting to happen.

KeithB
www.response-training.co.uk

[charlie taters]

I actually can't see a problem with the video's on the website, although I don't think any of them are from the actual incident he's jailed for. I hate the way the site posts stuff like 'A video clip of where he hits a woman.' but then you watch it and low and behold the pissed up bitch slaps him repeatedly on the face with both hands. What's the guy supposed to do? How anti-doorman is it being reported?

Balantyne how come if you were Ops Manager for the same company you didn't remove him from the doors considering your opinion of him?

I think the video where the lad gets carried out is the one who got paralysed.

[Gepard]

What is the issue with full nelsons? I've used them ever since I started, never had a problem, never had an injury and thought they were a good/recommended restaint to use. Oops.....

It's only after reading this I've started to question it.....