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Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

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Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby WtD_Oracle » 19 Mar 2010, 10:27

The SIA is supporting a new Home Office campaign, which addresses young adults using fake or false identification when attempting to enter pubs and clubs.

The initiative, in association with the Proof of Age Scheme (PASS) advises young people that if they are caught using fake, or someone else’s ID, they could have it confiscated and may be prosecuted.

The SIA is urging door supervisors to confiscate false ID and hand them over to the police, who will then return the documents to the relevant authority.

Baroness Ruth Henig, Chairman at the SIA said:

"We are advising licensees and door staff to help ensure fake or false IDs are confiscated and handed to the police.
Trained and professional SIA-licensed door supervisors play an important role in creating a safe environment for the public when visiting pubs and clubs across the UK.
Door staff can also contribute to reducing under-age drinking. Our approved door supervisor training ensures door supervisors are made aware of the PASS scheme."
PASS Chairman Robert Humphreys added:

"This campaign is timely and most welcome. Many underage young people often see getting past door staff or being served as something of a game, but for those responsible for enforcing the law it's no joke - in fact a mistake can easily cost them their jobs and even get them a criminal record. The clarity of the message is vital - attempting to break the law is unacceptable and could get you in serious trouble."
The fake ID posters can be downloaded from the Home Office website http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.go ... hol109.htm

PASS is the national proof-of-age accreditation scheme, endorsed by Government, which sets minimum standards for proof-of-age cards. More details can be found on their website: http://www.pass-scheme.org.uk
The Security Industry Authority regulates the private security industry in the United Kingdom under the Private Security Industry Act 2001, reporting to the Home Secretary. Its main duties are: the compulsory licensing of individuals undertaking designated activities; managing the voluntary Approved Contractor Scheme approving private security suppliers.

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Last edited by WtD_Oracle on 19 Mar 2010, 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby noise stopper » 19 Mar 2010, 10:28

Here we go again, watches the sky for incoming!

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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 19 Mar 2010, 13:51

I'm covering this at the SIA conference at Tiverton. The point is omiited in that cutting but a 'procedure needs to be in place' and sadly the SIA have not given this any thought what so ever.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby monkeydave » 19 Mar 2010, 22:02

Can of worms. I wouldn't confiscate any ID unless it's a passport/driving licence/bank card in someone elses name than the person presenting it.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 20 Mar 2010, 14:39

Dave for my own reference can you perhaps give your reasons why you would be happy to 'confiscate' driving licences and Passports but nothing else?

Could you also perhaps give your defintition of 'confiscate'

Anyone else wanting to offer comment on these questions please do so
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby monkeydave » 20 Mar 2010, 15:47

viking power wrote:Dave for my own reference can you perhaps give your reasons why you would be happy to 'confiscate' driving licences and Passports but nothing else?

Could you also perhaps give your defintition of 'confiscate'

Anyone else wanting to offer comment on these questions please do so


1. Because I am not a Police officer or willing to work the nanny police state for them and doing their job in a sense really. What next? We start to dish out on the spot fines for people drinking on the street/smoking in the toilets etc? Where does it stop?

2. I don't remember doing a module on the Fraud Act when i did my SIA course - Who im i to decide if someone has broken the law and then take property off them? Is it an arrestable offence to show a false ID card to a security officer etc who has no police powers, or would i break the law to say my name is Ben, when it's really Dave to someone?

Think about say Ben. Ben is 17 and needs an ID. So off he goes onto Google and finds a website offering ID cards. Website gets around the law by creating an ID card that does not copy an offical ID. It says Ben is 21 and this card allows him to ride a motorbike. Ben has paid £9.99 for this card and uses it on a night out, but security clock we dont have a motorbike driving licence here in the UK, so refuses entry and also confiscate his card.

Now.. tell me what offence Ben has committed? and could the door supervisor be open to investigation of theft of Ben's property? Ben paid for it and it's in his name after all?

3. Passorts and the like are official Gov't documents - hence why i would take them off someone if they didnt belong to them and hand them to over to the police for futher investigation. You don't OWN a passport - the bearer only has the right to use it. Big difference in law there.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 20 Mar 2010, 16:00

Dave, Many thanks I appreciate you taking the time to make those comments.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby monkeydave » 20 Mar 2010, 16:16

viking power wrote:Dave, Many thanks I appreciate you taking the time to make those comments.


No worries. I am not saying that my comments are right, just pointing out the minefield and wide grey area. For the SIA to simply issue a press release and a funky poster advising staff to confiscate false/Fake ID is shocking to say the least.

Why on earth have the SIA not created say a PDF info pack for door staff to explain the law (fraud act) and use of ID cards to give us the full knowlege skill set in what they are asking us? and more importantly the reasurance we will be acting within the law!

Dave :O)
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 20 Mar 2010, 16:33

Dave I believe you would be interested in what i have to say on this. All very well any agency saying 'confiscate' which I would define to be 'to seize with authority' - what is this authority ? Why is no agency prepared to offer guidance, means or method despite requests to do so?

I believe this recent comment is almost one made to enhance the SIA's perceived credibility in the field without any thought given to the realities of the comment laid down. I do have a solution but I would apprecaite further comments from others reading this thread. Once again interesting comments made
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby Gepard » 20 Mar 2010, 16:37

DS are like Santas........only the best have presence.
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 20 Mar 2010, 16:45

or possibly that thread also
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby monkeydave » 20 Mar 2010, 16:58



Interesting comments from a faceless Home Office LieBour nanny state statzi offical in that thread, but he's not a high court judge is he, and have the Home Office issued actual legal guidelines for door supervisors and local police forces as yet on this? Until i see them and the SIA agree to place it into their training module, i won't be confiscating anyones property, as i don't believe i have the legal authority to do so. :O)
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby monkeydave » 20 Mar 2010, 17:13

viking power wrote:Dave I believe you would be interested in what i have to say on this. All very well any agency saying 'confiscate' which I would define to be 'to seize with authority' - what is this authority ? Why is no agency prepared to offer guidance, means or method despite requests to do so?

I believe this recent comment is almost one made to enhance the SIA's perceived credibility in the field without any thought given to the realities of the comment laid down. I do have a solution but I would apprecaite further comments from others reading this thread. Once again interesting comments made


I would define authority as one working on behalf of the state who has more legal powers than a normal citizen. Something Door Supervisors do not! :O)

Maybe no agency will offer guidance on the subject because there is nothing in law that allows a normal citizen to confiscate property and they're covering their arse?
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby grove39 » 20 Mar 2010, 17:18

maybe DS's should be given those powers , half the reason DS are there is to stop underage drinking but if nobody is given the power to stop it then whats the point

why should any of us end up in the s*it either way just because the government and authorities cant decide what we can or cant do , why leave it all to a grey area
Whenever you drink too much alcohol remember these three facts: 1) Water is wet. 2) Fire is Hot. And 3) YOU CANNOT FLY
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Re: Door Staff Advised to Confiscate False ID

Postby viking power » 20 Mar 2010, 19:02

Door staff are indeed part of the night time economy and work an important role alongside the other partners but it can not be considered acceptable to allow the citizen to seize and retain goods.

I believe the answer is a contract of bailment with a defined purpose and use.
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