how many door supervisors per customer

This section is to discuss anything related to the Security Industry

Moderators: Bulldog, Big Paul, karlbee, hippy, Door Bitch, Boz

Postby Richard » 29 Sep 2005, 10:38

just got this reply from the Health & Safety people.makes me laugh it doesn't matter who you ask they will not give an answer and say ask someone else.
i thought the SIA would be incharge myself as they are supposed to work with us d/s.
so i still none the wiser.


Thank you for your enquiry regarding the numbers of door staff.

The Health and Safety Executive do not outline the number door staff as the
Home Office are the Government Department responsible for the changes . the
following information may be of use to you.

The Security Industry Authority (SIA) are an agency under the Home Office
who are responsible for the licensing of the private security industry as
set out in the Private Security Industry Act 2001 (which applies to all
doorstaff and security guards) They also aim to raise standards of
professionalism and skills within the private security industry and to
promote and spread best practice. The training for the licence deals with
first aid and basic H&S.

Anyone wanting information on the new licensing would need to contact:

Security Industry Authority
PO Box 9
Newcastle Upon Tyne
NE82 6YX
Tel: 08702 430 100
Fax: 08702 430 125

http://www.the-sia.org.uk/home


I hope this helps, but if you require further assistance, please do not
hesitate to contact this address again or telephone HSE Infoline on 08453
450055.

Yours sincerely


David

HSE Infoline
Richard
The Guvnor
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 22:54

Postby jonezy » 29 Sep 2005, 10:54

no one seems to want to help in this matter do they, this has caught my interested eye as i work on a pub on a friday which can an does hold, 350 punters and we have 2 doorstaff on. i wouldnt mind findin an answer to this.. as all i got was ask somebody else last time i tryed... same as you rich
u no that freight train that just hit you!!! that was me!!!
jonezy
WTD Head Door Supervisor
 
Posts: 468
Joined: 18 Aug 2005, 14:38
Location: ma little weed spot

Postby Voltz » 29 Sep 2005, 13:33

Under the new licence from November it would be down to the management to decide how many door staff to put on. If they didn't put anything on their application about how many door staff they would have on each night then they don't have to have any.

However the police may have something to say about that and can appeal against the licence.

Under current regulations if the licensing authority do not put anything in the PEL then again it is upto the management. There is no law for numbers of doorstaff to number of customers.
Dave Beel
CEO South West Clubbing Ltd
User avatar
Voltz
WTD Recruit
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 22 Feb 2005, 19:25

Postby Richard » 29 Sep 2005, 13:41

well i think there should be.
the SIA are supposed to be on our side,so they should make it a rule.
Richard
The Guvnor
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 22:54

Postby Voltz » 29 Sep 2005, 13:55

The answer is that if you don't think you have enough door staff, you speak to management and say OY, we can't handle this, especially if it could be a dangerous situation.

Its hard to say how many door staff every club would need, for instance if you had 800 OAP's in your club you don't want to be having 8 doorstaff. But 800 idiots, I would be wanting 8-10 staff in reality, depending upon the layout of the club maybe more.

There are too many differentials for every venue and customer type to be able to put down a set number of door staff to a set number of punters. Certain areas of the country are not as full of cnuts as other areas.
Dave Beel
CEO South West Clubbing Ltd
User avatar
Voltz
WTD Recruit
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 22 Feb 2005, 19:25

Postby K2zerotoleranceK2 » 29 Sep 2005, 16:40

Voltz i agree 100% mate...it all depends on what type of crowd you have in your venue..if its a rough crowd, you need to beef up the doorstaff.
Image
User avatar
K2zerotoleranceK2
WTD Head Door Supervisor
 
Posts: 680
Joined: 10 Aug 2005, 17:35
Location: West Midlands

Postby Apps » 30 Sep 2005, 08:01

Richard wrote: the
following information may be of use to you.

The Security Industry Authority (SIA) are an agency under the Home Office
who are responsible for the licensing of the private security industry as
set out in the Private Security Industry Act 2001 (which applies to all
doorstaff and security guards) They also aim to raise standards of
professionalism and skills within the private security industry and to
promote and spread best practice. The training for the licence deals with
first aid and basic H&S.


Whoooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaa there nelly!!

Let's rewind a bit shall we?

Richard wrote: The training for the licence deals with first aid and basic H&S.


So the HSE don't even know that the training doesn't include First Aid anymore - well that's a comforting thought isn't it now?

Another confirmation that the too many SIA cooks have spoilt the broth and nobody has a clue what's going on.


At the moment though, unfortunately, the number of DS is still down to the PEL issued for the venue, did a bit of digging for Nottingham and found this-

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/cdfl_doc_entconditons

-which has NO mention of preferred numbers of DS to customers. I found the same document for Watford on of their council website, and their PEL guideleines state to have a 1 to 100 ratio DS to 'likely customers' in the venue. If the council has not defined a number of DS required per customer, then maybe approaching the local police for their opinion (in writing) on the matter - they should have been consulted when drawing up the PEL requirements anyway I would have thought.

Agree with everyone here that the need for black and white guidelines over the ratio of DS to customers is long overdue!!
The nicest Psycopath you'll ever meet.
User avatar
Apps
WTD Head Door Supervisor
 
Posts: 709
Joined: 24 Jan 2005, 08:57
Location: Herts

Postby Richard » 30 Sep 2005, 08:25

great find mate i reading it now,i didn't realise how many of the PEL rules our venue is breaking,i am highliting the ones i find and printing a copy out to take to work tonight.

love this bit though.


29. a) No person shall be employed or otherwise engaged on the licensed premises as a door supervisor unless he/she holds a current registration from the City Council or the Security Industry Authority.

b) At all times when engaged on supervisory duties a person shall wear and clearly display the registration badge issued by the City Council or the Security Industry Authority.

c) ‘Door supervisor’ means any person employed at or near the entrance to the licensed premises to ascertain or satisfy him/herself as to the suitability of customers to be allowed on the premises, and/or is primarily employed to maintain order on the premises.



well our venue manager had no SIA badge on display last night and was clearly performing the role of a door supervisor as was the fresher reps.
Richard
The Guvnor
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 22:54

Postby Apps » 30 Sep 2005, 08:27

Exactly, mate - don't you just love the World Wide Web!! :D
Keep us posted mate.
The nicest Psycopath you'll ever meet.
User avatar
Apps
WTD Head Door Supervisor
 
Posts: 709
Joined: 24 Jan 2005, 08:57
Location: Herts

Postby Richard » 30 Sep 2005, 08:40

i have highlited the ones in red that was broken last night take a look.
i am sure i have even missed a few,but it early.i just got up and am looking after my likkle daughter.


STANDARD CONDITIONS OF ENTERTAINMENT LICENCE

GENERAL

1. The licensee, or a responsible person nominated by him/her in writing for the purpose shall be in charge of and on the licensed premises during the whole time that they are open for public entertainment. The person in charge shall throughout the whole time the premises are open for public entertainment, be assisted by a sufficient staff of competent attendants specially instructed by the licensee, or a person nominated by him/her, as to their duties in the event of any emergency.

2. The licensee shall allow any authorised officer of the Licensing Authority, Fire Authority or Police to enter all parts of the licensed premises at all reasonable times and the licensee shall conform with any reasonable request of an Authorised Officer of the Licensing Authority, Fire Authority or Police.

3. No exhibition, demonstration or performance of hypnotism shall be given.

4. The licensee shall not knowingly allow any unlawful game to be played on the licensed premises.

5. In relation to the morning on which summer time begins, where the terminal hour of this licence is later than 1.00 am, the terminal hour shall be extended by one hour.

6. Entertainments on Sundays shall be limited to those that are not prohibited by the Sunday Observance Acts as modified.

7. There shall be fixed and kept in a conspicuous place on the door or at the entrance of the premises, an inscription in capital letters as follows:- “LICENSED FOR PUBLIC ENTERTAINMENTS”, also showing the maximum occupancy level of the premises. Where an individual part of the premises has been licensed, the maximum occupancy (where determined by the Fire Officer) shall be displayed at the entrance to that part in the form “MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY”.

8. A copy of the Public Entertainment Licence shall be kept on the premises at all times and produced for inspection upon request by an Authorised Officer of the Licensing Authority, Police or Fire Authority.


ELECTRICAL SAFETY

9. The electrical system shall be in accordance with the edition of the regulations of the Institution of Electrical Engineers in force at the time of installation. All materials or equipment used in connection with the electrical system for which there is a British Standard specification, Regulations or Code of Practice shall conform to that specification, Regulation or Code.

10. A Report signed by a qualified electrical engineer who is a member of the National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation and Contracting (NICEIC), the Electrical Contractors Association, or the Electrical Contractors Association of Scotland, shall be submitted to the City Council on initial application and on renewal (except where a new licence and electrical reports are issued after 1 November) to the effect that the electrical system, the emergency lighting, if any, and the fire alarm system installed at the premises, if any, have been examined and tested and are in a safe working condition. All documentation relating to electrical safety submitted with an application to renew a licence must have been issued no earlier than 1 November of the preceding year. Entertainers shall only be permitted to use electrical sockets fitted with residual current device protection, complying with the current British Standard. Such sockets must be maintained in good working order and marked ‘Audio Equipment Only’.

11. All parts of the premises to which the public have access shall have the lighting system tested every three months and the results recorded in the fire log book. Where a secondary system of lighting is provided by the provision of hand lamps, these shall be maintained in an efficient working order and made available to staff whose duty it is to facilitate the evacuation of the premises.

12. Electric lighting switches and gas taps shall, as far as possible, be arranged to be protected from unauthorised interference by members of the public.

13. The electrical intake enclosure shall not be accessible to the public and shall be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is provided. The main supply shut off of both gas and electricity should be easily and readily accessible in case of emergency. All electrical accumulators shall be adequately ventilated and unless installed in rooms or compartments specially reserved for them, shall be completely enclosed together with the terminals in substantial enclosures constructed of, or lined with, insulating and fire resistant material. The gas meter enclosure shall be adequately ventilated and used exclusively for the purpose for which it is provided.

FIRE SAFETY

14. Emergency exit notices must be illuminated at all times the premises are occupied, to be legible and in the event of failure of normal lighting such signs must be illuminated by the emergency lighting supply.

15. Fire alarm systems should be tested weekly and the results recorded in a log book. The system shall be maintained in efficient working order.

16. Testing and maintenance shall be carried out on all fire equipment, which shall be maintained in efficient working order.

17. Portable fire extinguishers shall be examined at least once annually and tested by a BAFE registered extinguisher maintenance engineer.

18. A notice or notices clearly indicating the position of the nearest telephone by which the emergency services may be summoned must be provided in suitable locations. If the premises are to be used for the regular provision of indoor sporting entertainment, a telephone must be installed.

19. The licensee must inform both the Fire Service, the Police and the Licensing Authority of any fire, however slight that occurs on the premises.

20. A fire log book must be kept which records details of tests, examinations and fire drill instruction. The log book must be readily available and produced for inspection by an authorised Officer of the Licensing Authority, Fire Authority or Police.

21. All members of staff must receive written instruction and training appropriate to their responsibilities in the event of an emergency. The training and instruction of staff on fire safety must include actions on discovering a fire, raising the alarm, location and use of fire fighting equipment, evacuation of the public and staff, calling the fire service. This training is to be carried out immediately to new staff as part of an induction programme and periodically repeated no less than twice per year.

PUBLIC ORDER AND ACCESS

22. a) The total number of persons allowed on the premises, is as stated on the licence. Any request to amend the occupancy must be by applying to vary the licence.

b) The licensee shall ensure that an effective system for determining the number of persons on the premises at any one time is used at all times when the premises are open for public entertainment. Staff responsible for monitoring and controlling access to the premises and management staff are to be aware of the maximum occupancy figures for the entire premises and where appropriate specific areas within the premises. These staff members must be instructed as to how the occupancy figure is to be monitored and the action to be taken when the maximum occupancy figure is reached.

c) The licensee shall not allow the stated maximum occupancy to be exceeded.

23. The licensee shall maintain and keep good order and decent behaviour on the premises.

24. No public music, dancing, exhibition, recitation or entertainment of a like kind shall be permitted or suffered to take place in the licensed premises which is offensive, obscene, immoral, licentious, indecent or likely to produce riot, tumult or a breach of the peace, and the operation of the premises shall be carried out in such a way to prevent such conduct.
25. Table dancing, lap dancing, pole dancing and all forms of entertainment, dancing, or displays that include nudity or sexual performances of any kind are prohibited.

26. Collapsible gates or roller shutters, if installed, shall be opened to allow full width and necessary height of exit way before admission of the public, and must be kept locked in that position at all times the public are on the premises. A notice stating the requirements of this rule as to the opening and locking of the gates and shutters shall be kept posted in a conspicuous position near the gates or shutters.

27. In the case of seated audiences, adequate gangways of not less than 1.07 metres (3ft 6in) wide shall be provided for the free passage of the audience. These gangways shall not be occupied or obstructed in any manner and must be arranged opposite exit doors wherever possible.

28. Where the premises are to be used for a seated audience (except lunches or dinners) exceeding 200 persons, all seats shall be securely fixed to the floor, or secured together in groups of four and 12. Where more than 400 persons are to be accommodated, the seats adjoining front, back or across the gangways and seats adjoining exits shall be securely fixed to the floor. The seats shall be so arranged that no seat or part of a seat shall be more that 4.57 metres (15 ft) from a gangway, measured in line of seating. Seating arrangements should comply with current British Standards and Codes of Good Practice.

29. a) No person shall be employed or otherwise engaged on the licensed premises as a door supervisor unless he/she holds a current registration from the City Council or the Security Industry Authority.

b) At all times when engaged on supervisory duties a person shall wear and clearly display the registration badge issued by the City Council or the Security Industry Authority.

c) ‘Door supervisor’ means any person employed at or near the entrance to the licensed premises to ascertain or satisfy him/herself as to the suitability of customers to be allowed on the premises, and/or is primarily employed to maintain order on the premises.


d) The licensee shall maintain on the premises a log book in which the names, addresses and dates of birth of all registered door supervisors, and the registration number of registered door supervisors shall be entered for each day that they are engaged at the premises.

e) The log book shall be kept for a period of at least three months from the date of the last entry and be readily available for inspection by an authorised officer of the Licensing Authority, Fire Authority or Police.

30. This condition applies to premises which are licensed for liquor (other than by way of an occasional licence) and which are licensed to remain open after the general licensing hours defined and prescribed by Section 60 of the Licensing Act 1964.

a) The licensee shall provide free and unrestricted access to cold drinking water at a location which is readily accessible to customers. The water shall be provided without any charge.

b) The licensee shall provide rest facilities which are cooler, quieter and preferably separate from the main dance area(s). Adequate seating shall be provided with the rest facilities.

c) The licensee shall provide full working air conditioning and/or room temperature regulation appropriate for the type of event. Such air conditioning and/or room temperature regulation shall be properly maintained and shall operate during the provision of entertainment.

d) The licensee shall ensure that adequate first aid provision is available at all times to include having at least one nominated and suitably trained first aider on the premises at all times during the event.

31. a) In premises licensed for public dancing, the dance floor shall be clearly delineated and shall be positioned in such a way as to ensure the safety of persons using the dance floor.

b) The arrangements for access around the dance floor and for seating in the vicinity of the dance floor shall be such that neither dancers nor patrons, seated or otherwise, are put at risk of physical injury.

32. The licensee shall ensure that all plant and equipment used on the premises to which the licence relates is maintained in a safe condition and except for necessary maintenance be securely fenced or otherwise guarded so as to preclude any danger.

33. a) The provision of sanitary conveniences and other appliances and facilities must be in accordance with the current British Standard.

b) All sanitary conveniences and appliances must be kept in good order and repair and kept effectively cleansed and ventilated. The licensee must ensure that every part of the premises to which the licence applies is maintained in a good state of structural repair and stability.

34. No structural alterations to the premises shall be made without the City Council’s consent. Any request made to alter the premises must be by applying to vary the licence.

35. The licensee must ensure that every part of the premises is maintained in a good state of structural repair and stability.

36. The licensee must ensure that in every part of the premises to which the licence applies, the floors, walls, ceilings, windows, doors and fixtures are maintained in a clean condition, that the walls, ceilings, windows and doors are maintained in a reasonable state of decoration, and that no accumulation of dirt, rubbish or flammable material is allowed in any part of the licensed premises or in any other place under the control of the licensee and adjacent to the licensed premises.

37. Refuse must be stored in proper dustbins or other suitable receptacles with close fitting lids.

38. The licensee shall take all due precautions for the prevention of accident and shall not permit any act which is likely to cause fire or danger to the public.

39. All gangways, staircases and exits shall be kept clear of obstructions, well illuminated and free from any trip hazard whilst the premises are open for public entertainment.


NOISE AND GENERAL NUISANCE

40. Any noise produced or associated with the entertainment must not be audible at the façade of the nearest residential, commercial or industrial premises.

41. The licensee shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that patrons awaiting entry to the premises or leaving the premises do not cause annoyance or nuisance to any other person in the vicinity of the premises.

42. Sound insulation or control equipment which is installed to prevent noise nuisance to the occupiers of neighbouring premises shall be maintained in satisfactory working order.


SPECIAL EFFECTS

43. Lasers and strobes are not to be used without the written consent of the City Council. A warning sign to the effect that a laser or strobe is to be used in premises must be clearly displayed at all public entrances to the premises such that the public can see the warning sign before entering.


April 2004
Richard
The Guvnor
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: 19 Jan 2005, 22:54

Previous

Return to Security Related Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests